Website Unveiling - Meeting, 11-12-2008

Otter says, "OK, everybeast ... it's 6pm MU time."

Violet exclaims, "Man oh man, new website!"

Savannah pages, "Good to see you again!" to you.

Ajax exclaims, "Thanks Heartwood!"

Aleltai says, "Thanks."

Gamut enters the bar, looking around, trying to adjust to the sudden dimness of the room.

Gamut has arrived.

Otter says, "So: http://rwmuck.limitless.org/rwmuck/"

Ajax exclaims, "Boom!"

Ferro exclaims, "Schweeeet!"

Aleltai says, "Hmm. Looks nice, have to get used to it."

Otter says, "So, all head there, have a look ... and have a look at 'web client' in the upper right as well."

Hallow enters the bar, looking around, trying to adjust to the sudden dimness of the room.

Hallow has arrived.

Heartwood rings the starting bell

Violet says, "Real clean feel."

Gero oohs....Nice

Otter says, "The beast to make suggestions to is Heartwood ... she's the one who did the work to make it go live."

Savannah ooos "Nice"

Ajax thanks Heartwood again!

Demmer applauds.

You say, "Like the old site, you'll be able to create pages, articles, etc. once you've registered."

Otter says, "You can also enter 'stories' (like a reporter) and they will appear in news."

Otter says, "We didn't move much from the old site, which will remain up for a few weeks."

Otter says, "So, be sure to grab your pages from there and put them into the new one."

Aleltai says, "Ok. Just for kicks anyway to make it so that MU players and web accounts are linked together, such that making a new player on the MU results in a web account and losing a player makes that account disappear?"

You say, "Otter will be working on making that happen."

Violet says, "Heartwood, congratulations. It looks sharp."

Starlenia nods. 'tis neat!

Aleltai says, "Cool. Looks nice so far. :)"

Otter says, "The Help Guides are a 'book', so anyone can add pages to it and anyone can edit them (if the pages are setup as "Help Pages"). Most of the pages except "official" ones in the book are editable by all, sort of like a Wiki without the auto-linking."

Gero thinks This Website Looks...looks...Whats a word thats better than Awesome? Super Awesome? Better than Super awesome ^.^

Otter says, "Yes ... the web will become "intertwined" with the MU as software is built."

Aleltai asks, "So Otter,, should we make an account for our existing player, or wait for you people to somehow make that work?"

Otter says, "No, make accounts."

Violet oooops and already-- whew.

Otter says, "When we get a MU link working, you'll 'link' it to your mu character."

Otter says, "Do NOT wait for vaporware ;)"

Otter says, "Now, when you have RPs and do logs and such, please throw them into the site."

Otter says, "Right now, it's basicaly begging for some 'real content' to be adde.d"

You say, "The system we're using, Drupal, is very expandable. If there's a feature that people want, it may be that someone has allready written the needed code for it. So it doesn't hurt to ask."

Darklett hms.

Aleltai says, "Okay. So, the web client thingy, is there a chance having an option for white on black as opposed to whatever color on white?"

Hallow asks, "Is there still a place for groups to have their own pages? (If it's staring me right in the face then very sorry, it's late XD)"

Otter says, "The web-client is just a "get them past telnet" tool."

You say, "For example, when I figure out how to get it working, there will be the ability for groups, like the Abbey, to have their own pages and sections."

Riverdale inquires, "Is the code for the web client in CVS?"

Otter says, "It's really not a full-feature client. But, I'm just hoping that it gets people over the "I can't edit my line!" hurdle."

Otter says, "No. The web client is ... borrowed from a bit of a commercial project."

Riverdale nods.

Aleltai says, "Yeah, I was just wondering cause blue on white is a little painful to the eyes."

Starlenia asks, "The 'moving back and forth makes [C[C[C[C' problem too? o.o"

Ferret enters the bar, looking around, trying to adjust to the sudden dimness of the room.

Ferret has arrived.

Violet says, "Waaah, another ghost .."

Aleltai asks, "Should name our web accounts after our player name?"

Ferret steals all the cookies.

Ajax exclaims, "Ferret!"

Otter says, "Doesn't matter at this point."

Violet says, "Aletai- you can list your character names .. so I don't think it matters."

Player Title S Species Stat Idle Location

---

Ferret M Ferret OOC 20s Big Bang Bar and Grille

---

06:12:05 PM - 11/12/08--

Violet says, "On your profile .."

Aleltai says, "I suppose, just curious."

Ferret waves to Ajax.

You say, "It's easy for me to add more fields to the profile, by the way. And you can do in the text fields about the same as what you can in any other part of the site."

You say, "So feel free to offer suggestions there."

Otter says, "Do be careful, though ... until it IS linked into the MU, verify on-MU that someone who posts something that seems odd is REALLY the same person."

Starlenia has connected.

Starlenia looks suspiciously at Ajax. n.n

Starlenia has disconnected.

Otter says, "If you connect via the graphic client, AND your normal client, don't mind the %% GUI-PONG messages you see float past."

Otter says, "That's how the client ensures it doesn't get dropped or die on a NAT router."

Ajax grins at Starlenia, "I'm in yours modem stealing your internet!

Ferro thanks Heatrwood profusely.

Otter says, "Als, there's forums."

Otter says, "If you aren't sure how to do something, and Heartwood isn't here, don't page-mail, as in the forums."

Otter says, "I'll setup some video tutorials the week after next (when I'm back from my class) as well."

You say, "Yes. I'm likely to miss page #mails that hit this account."

Starlenia says, "Thank you, Heartwood. ^^;"

Otter says, "And, no "page mail to email" is not a good idea ..."

You say, "It was a thought..."

Heartwood whistles innocently.

Gero thanks Heartwood!

Otter says, "You weren't the only person asking."

Otter says, "Once we link the MU into the web-site, though, perhaps if we support "private messages" in forums it would be an option."

Zoe_Lang returns.

Starlenia asks, "Um, can you look at the forums from the MUCK? o.o"

Zoe_Lang goes Out Of Character.

Starlenia throws confetti! n.n

Ferro overloads on possibilities. Goes into shock x.x

Otter says, "Nope; the MU doesn't go OUT, but the web-site will be able to go IN."

Zoe_Lang says, "Private messages would be nice."

Demmer says, "I'm working on the NMC Server link. I'm not sure when it will be ready."

Starlenia asks, "Do you mean private message to p#mail then?"

Demmer says, "I hope to have a prototype working soon."

Otter says, "No, some forum systems allow "private messages.""

Otter says, "I don't know about this one. I always felt "private message" should just go via email, but ... others have asked about the same thing."

Riverdale inquires, "What is the preferred input format for code? I have a few MPI files that I had on the previous site that I'd like to continue to make available, but the only option seems to be filtered HTML."

Aleltai says, "Having the profile section for listing character's have a separate text box for each character's name and maybe have a way to enter your chars description just for kicks."

Otter says, "The earlier comment was to have page-mails be pushed somewhere to the web-site."

You say, "It can be added with a module."

Zoe_Lang says, "People will send messages in the forum that only you will receive and you will have an inbox that you can access them in, and save them. Much niftier than the page-mail system on MUCK! XD"

You say, "Riverdale,

or  tags should work."

Otter says, "Riverdale, just put block around it."

Otter hm.s

Riverdale says, "Very well."

Zoe_Lang says, "I think private messages would be helpful for groups."

Otter says, "Or it might be worht doing a small Pyhton script to "convert" the code to use the < stuff directly."

Aleltai says, "Well, the page #mail system on the MUCK is good for people that may not use the website, and it will remind you whenever you get on."

Violet says, "I like how clean the design is, definitely."

Huh? If you need help, type '+globals for a list of all MUCK commands'

You say, "The group module I'm working on comes with the ability to do messages within a group..."

Otter asks, "What does a group-site need? We've got a few group leaders here. What do you want?"

Otter helps the real guest.

Starlenia lets. >.>

Riverdale laughs.

Zoe_Lang hms.

Zoe_Lang asks, "Any way to rig up mini-forums for groups?"

Otter says, "I know what I'd like for the Order of Redwall."

Starlenia says, "There are two news links.. o.o;"

Otter says, "Oh: most page-types allow comments, like a blog."

Otter says, "As well as there being forums."

Zoe_Lang says, "Fair enough. :)"

Heartwood checks

Zoe_Lang asks, "What do you want for Redwall?"

Ferret says, "Tree-fitty."

Otter says, "The means to have a book that only people I mark as "in the order" can edit pages within."

Zoe_Lang says, "P.S. Very nice, Heartwood. :)"

Starlenia nodnods.

Otter says, "A book in drupal is what the "Help Guides" are setup in. They are a series of related pages with built-in navigation."

Otter says, "I'd like private forums or course ..."

Otter says, "But, mostly, I'm not so worried about private things as shared public things that all can edit."

You say, "Adding forums for groups is easy but making them private to a group isn't possable until the module that does that is updated to the current version of Drupal."

Zoe_Lang asks, "So will group pages be separate from characters in-game? Or will group content disappear if the person who created the content is purged?"

Riverdale inquires, "Is there any way to let a bot post to the site if it has an API key?"

Otter says, "I'm not sure 'secrecy' or 'privacy' is really that important. What goes on in a group doesn't generally need secrets. It's easier to get new people up to speed (or to attract them) if they can watch what the group does."

You say, "Zoe_Lang, I think they should persist but I'll have to test that."

Demmer nods, "A number of the contributed modules simply aren't ported to the new version.

Otter says, "Riverdale, I imagine it would be possible. But, having the bot be active is probably unwise."

Otter says, "If the web-site can hit the MU "as needed" there's no reason for the MU to "push things" into the web-site. On teh other hand, if the bot wants to _query_ the web-site, it doesn't need special access for that, because things are publicly reached."

You say, "Otter, everyone, what do you think of this: I'll make a thread in the web admin forum where group leaders who want forums for their group can request them."

Otter says, "Sounds fine tome."

You say, "That can be done without additional config."

You say, "Well, much additonal config."

Zoe_Lang says, "Sounds good. :)"

Otter says, "Also, those who want to make groups but haven't _yet_, read that thread as well."

Otter says, "The problem Heartwood and I have is that we only know what things _we would like_ but we're only two of 700+ users."

Zoe_Lang asks, "So will there be a link for groups along the left column as before?"

Starlenia asks, "Seven hundred? o.o"

You say, "Riverdale, bots posting to the site is not something I know anything about. You may want to poke around drupal.org for info."

Otter says, "Sorry, 300."

Otter says, "My old brain."

Zoe_Lang grins.

Otter says, "Of course, it will likely be 700 agian."

Zoe_Lang says, "AFK again. Babeh duty!"

Riverdale nods.

You say, "....Zoe_Lang has *kids* now? o.O"

Otter says, "Demmer and I do have a list of basic things though we want pulled: motd, where, who, wg, +stats, all the over-view/status stuff."

Ferret chuckles.

Ferro asks, ""300?" Roars! "SPAR-TANS""

Otter says, "In fact, I think "having a bot that pulls data to present" is PROBABLY already possible with zero code-mods on the site."

Otter winces.

Ajax eats Ferro.

Starlenia thwaps. Bad Ajax! Bad!

Riverdale pumps Ajax's stomach.

Ferro dies a horrible death.

Starlenia exclaims, "Spit him out!"

Heartwood feels just that much older.

Otter says, "Drop him, Scar."

Starlenia says, "Her. x.x;"

Ferret snickers.

Ajax spits out the mouse.

Starlenia gives Ajax a cookie?

Ajax eats the cookie, crumbs fly everywhere. ^.^

Ferro dazed @.o "I have seen things that would drive the gods mad ...

Ajax exclaims, "Well I do pretty much eat anything!"

Otter says, "You're dead. You don't eat too much."

Ajax exclaims, "Hey, even zombies need to eat!"

Ferret says, "Just Ethereal Oreos. real aura filling."

Ferro snickers

Darklett is very pleased, and can't wait until there is content.

Starlenia says, "Aureos."

MORE content.

Ferret grins to Starlenia.

Otter says, "I'd like content as well.. so everybeast, start pouring in content. ;)"

Violet scrolls to catchup.

Ajax eats the aureos.

Ferret says, "She beat me to it."

Otter says, "Most important, try to get your good logs and stuff in."

Otter asks, "Those let people who wonder "What's a MU?" find out."

Otter says, "This isn't like the old site, where you had to create something and then make a link to it."

Darklett gives that an A++.

Otter says, "If you create a log, it simply appears in the log's page, for instance."

Otter says, "You are _allowed_ to link to it, though."

>> The game will paws in two minutes to save changed objects. <<

Otter says, "So, you can make a post in a forum and give a link."

Huh? If you need help, type '+globals for a list of all MUCK commands'

Otter says, "You can also reference it from a help page (which anyone can edit) or from a page you make which only you can edit."

You say, "Ok, request thread for groups posted."

Otter says, "Hai."

You say, "BRB"

Darklett says, "I guess I'll have to see things once they're going, but the old site's group pages... Ah, I think that answered my question."

Setting status: Away From Keyboard. (AFK)

Otter says, "The manual work of the old site was painful."

Otter says, "The auto-navigation in the "book" used for Help Guides was amazing to see in action."

Otter ported over a few pages so they wouldn't be empty.

Aleltai asks, "So how do we tell where pages we create are?"

Darklett says, "Or, maybe not. So like, how are group pages going to work?"

Otter hehs. "I've no idea yet how the group system will work. I'd guess each group will have a book."

Otter says, "that's a guess. If so, all pages within it will be automatically navigable."

Otter says, "And, Aleltai, the page comes up in the view so you can grab the URL right off the top."

>> Pawsing to save changed objects. <<

>> Save Complete. Next save will be in an hour or so. <<

Setting status: Out Of Character. (OOC)

Otter says, "I think a log doesn't, but you can always go to My Profile and Track to see what you posted."

Darklett asks, "Once we create a page, how do we navigate to it?"

Darklett should probably try stuff before asking questions...

Otter says, "If you add it to a book during creation, it will appear in teh book."

Otter says, "No, by all means, ask. I did. Ask Heartwood."

Kaikoura enters the bar, looking around, trying to adjust to the sudden dimness of the room.

Kaikoura has arrived.

Otter says, "I'm NOT a web-master/web-content guy."

In a room page-pose, Kaikoura waves to the hordes of people!

Heartwood reads backscroll

Otter says, "For ane xample of a book, go to Help Guides on the upper-right."

Otter says, "I don't know what those four 'things' are calle.d"

Darklett nods. So where do we find a list of books, and will the books be grouped? Like, aesthetically?

Ajax waves to Kaikoura!

Otter says, "Actually, I think anyone can make a book."

Riverdale waves.

Otter says, "But, it would be up to that person to either add a link to it on a page they control, or have the webmaster add a "navigation link" to it so it's global."

You say, "Right now, if the description of a content type doesn't say that someting is automaticly listed/posted somewhere, it's posted nowhere."

Zoe_Lang returns!

Otter says, "It's stored, though. Your page doesn't vanish!"

Darklett nods. So, say there were like a bunch of groups on the MUCK and they all had their own book. Is there a page that lists all the books?

You say, "You can access everything you've created from your profile under the "track" tab."

Gero says, "WB zoe"

Ferret waves

Otter says, "Darklett, right now, there isn't."

Starlenia glomps Kaikoura.

Darklett nods.

Otter says, "If books turn out to be the "way to do groups" though, we'd setup something so there was a list."

Zoe_Lang asks, "Still reading what I missed, but would it be possible (and preferable to others) to organize the logs page by region instead of by groups? Say - western shores, mossflower, the north, etc, encompassing those groups to kind of encourage the interplay of groups?"

Darklett says, "It's definitely the most logical way. Like, maybe add a categorization for books saying what their purpose is? That way it'll know where to post it? Is that reasonable?"

Otter says, "That's why we're asking. At this time, we really don't know what the best ways are to use all the things Drupal does."

Violet says, "I think Zoe has a great idea."

Ferro agrees wholeheartedly

Gero also thinks that was A good idea from zoe

Darklett backs the region-grouping, too.

Savannah has connected.

Starlenia nodnods. Agrees!

Riverdale peers.

Otter says, "Sounds fine to me. Can something be tagged as being in two categories at once?"

Zoe_Lang says, "I wonder if it's possible to have group-specific icons to identify logs with - just so you can see at a glance which log belongs to which group."

Otter says, "I think the main 'logs' page shows ALL the logs."

You say, "Zoe_Lang, for that, category terms can be added to the Logs type, and I'll be working on pages that sort logs by category. (Otter, yes they can). In the Web Admin forum there's a sticky thread about making new catetories, please post ones you think we'll need there.!"

Riverdale inquires, "Any idea if forum data is viewable as XML?"

Zoe_Lang hehs and pictures a little bunnehhare.

Otter says, "But you can request a category view, which sorts them by category on the page."

Violet says, "Pretty sweet."

Otter says, "We've no logs posted, so it's hard to know what itw ould be like."

Violet asks, "Heartwood - is there a language filter?"

You say, "Violet, no."

Otter says, "Riverdale, that would be something I'd check on www.drupal.org."

You say, "Riverdale, I don't know. The forums use the default drupal forum module plus the "Advanced Forums" mod."

Violet asks, "So anyone breaking the G rating in a post will have to be dealt with individually by administration by discovery?"

Zoe_Lang exclaims, "Ooh, look at that! There's already an option for Long Patrol/Salamandastron. Spiff!"

Otter says, "Yes, Violet."

Zoe_Lang asks, "Will you have people working as mods for the forum, then?"

Otter says, "We've got players who notified me when the porn-bots showed up, which is what finally caused me to kill account-creation on our old one."

Otter says, "We can setup forum mods."

Otter says, "This forum system _lets us delete_>"

Otter says, "The Zope one ... yeah, was scary."

You say, "The way it's currently set up, "webmasters" (of which Otter and I are the only ones right now) will be able to edit and delete whatever they need to."

Otter asks, "Heartwood, can you setup one that has the same privilege ONLY in teh forums?"

You say, "Sure."

Otter says, "I think it likely that forums are more likely to have, um, "inappropriate outburts" than general web stuff."

Darklett hms. I guess my suggestion would be to have set places where "books" can go and provide a list of those places in the book creation page, with a "none" option. And then when you make a page you have the option to add it to a book you control (don't know how easy it is to get a list of books you can edit) or to leave it as a standalone page.

Zoe_Lang asks, "But we can now edit and delete our own posts?"

Hallow says, "Woo for the add-bot destruction then. One thing will never be sorry to see go"

You say, "Zoe, yes"

Zoe_Lang rocks.

Gero rolls

Otter says, "Darklett, I think that books you have permission to show up in the drop-down on page creation, in the outline area."

Violet applies seizure medication.

Starlenia rumbles.

Otter says, "I don't know if books are created _outside_ of the pages. There seems to be a choice for 'create book' in the list of books. I've not tried it."

Darklett checks. Oh snap. Didn't even see that there.

Starlenia asks, "Could there be a 'bookshelf'? n.n;"

Otter hehs. "Keep on playing, Darklett. You're likely already further into it than I got. I just moved pages to an existing book."

You say, "There could be a bookshelf, yes."

Darklett asks, "Should I be able to add a page to the "Main" book?"

Otter says, "Darklett, once you add some pages, look at the 'weight' and 'child of' stuf. Books are like MU rooms. A room has text and sub-rooms, each of which also has text, recursively."

Otter asks, "To the Help Guides? Absolutely."

Otter says, "And you should be able to edit most of the pages in there."

You say, "The only book on the system (or was an hour ago) is the help book right now. That you absolutly want to add to."

Otter says, "Everyone who registers can add help-pages to the help-book. Non-help pages, too,but those can't be edited by others."

Zoe_Lang says, "This is absolutely lovely. It is made of love. XD"

Otter says, "That's how I put the 'rules pages' in as non-editable."

Otter asks, "But the how-tos and tutorials? Those are all free to edit."

Otter says, "We tried for a real wiki, but the wiki module didn't work."

Otter says, "Or not with thsi version."

Otter says, "Or some-such."

Zoe_Lang asks, "Will it be possible to revert to a previous version if, say, someone gets pissed off and wipes a page?"

Otter asks, "Heartwood ?"

You say, "The module for wiki formatting was just plain broken."

Darklett says, "Ah, the book is titled the same as the first page that is added to it."

Otter says, "Oh ... think through y our first page's name ;)"

You say, "Reversion can be done by a webmaster."

Zoe_Lang says, "Hm. K."

Otter says, "If someone _owns_ the page they can delete it."

You say, "Deleted pages are not recoverable though."

Otter says, "Right."

Darklett asks, "Wait, what's the difference between creating a "Book page" and a "page"? You can add both to books..."

Otter says, "You can add almost anything to a book."

You say, "The book page being enabled is kinda needed for the rest to work though (I'm mostly sure), else I would probably hide it."

Otter says, "I used Page for owner-editable and Help Page for anyone-editable."

Darklett nods. "I don't know if it's just me, but I think it'd be more intuitive if you just named it "Book."

Darklett says, ""Book page" makes me think of like... a page in a book."

You say, "Perhaps. It's easily done."

Darklett says, "Also, it kind of threw me off when the title of the book I created was the title of the first page I added to it. Is there a way to add a field when you select to create a new book asking for a title?"

You say, "I don't *think* so. However you can rearange pages in the outline view and make any page the first."

Riverdale says, "The taxonomy module seems to think it can give me an RSS feed of the forums, but it's only showing the feed for MUCK Logs."

Darklett says, "Maybe I'm thinking too much about physical 'books' and 'pages.'"

Otter says, "Darklett: document what you learn in a how-to about using them ;)"

Otter says, "Toss it in as a Help Page to the Help Guides book."

Darklett nods... Doing so already :P

You say, "Riverdale, if people want RSS feeds they can be set up."

Otter asks, "The muck logs has an RSS feed? That's almos scary."

Otter says, "Heartwood, set them up. Why not ;)"

Darklett taps fingers together. This is great. :)

You say, "Any that are there now are not exactly by intent."

Zoe_Lang hehes.

Riverdale says, "Okay."

Riverdale says, "RSS would be useful."

You say, "It may be because of the module controlling the list of the logs."

Starlenia asks, "Um, is there any way to log public areas automatically?"

Riverdale says, "Both for me and for my bot."

Otter says, "I should turn the web-logger back on."

Otter says, "I'll do that."

Otter says, "That's what the radio does in-game."

Riverdale exclaims, "I remember web logger!"

Kaikoura has disconnected.

Otter already has the sfotware on the MU.

Ajax asks, "Web logger? o.o"

Otter says, "Yes. So that anything on the radio was accessible on the web."

Starlenia raises a paw. "Oh! Um, I've just thought of something.."

Riverdale says, "I was starting to miss him. It. Her."

Riverdale says, "Zie."

Zoe_Lang says, "Aww."

Zoe_Lang says, "Web-logger. XD"

Ajax patpats Riverdale.

Riverdale exclaims, "No need to console me now, cat! Zie's coming back!"

Savannah has disconnected.

Otter says, "Riverdale, try '+radio machine' for the bot."

Starlenia asks, "Is there a command to ignore enter or exit messages on the radio?"

Otter says, "No...the radio is just a listen program."

Otter says, "It sees them."

Otter says, "To make it ignore them would cause problems if done, too, because it would cause logs to have people 'suddenly appear' if they don't pose in, and people reading the logs wouldn't know when they left."

Hawkthorn enters the bar, looking around, trying to adjust to the sudden dimness of the room.

Hawkthorn has arrived.

Ajax exclaims, "Hawkthorn!"

Hawkthorn knocks Ajax over and sits on.

Ajax chases his favorite wabbit!

Riverdale rofls. "I've had machine format on for myself for quite some time."

Ajax is sit on before he can chase. o.o

Riverdale says, "And I only just realized that."

Hawkthorn wiggles butt.

Violet remembers when all areas did not have arrive messages .. that was spooky.

Ajax oofs. X.x

Otter uses the machine format too.

Hawkthorn also drags Violet over. Squeezes.

You say, "Violet, that must be older than me. o.O"

Hallow says, "Depending on what client you're using you can sometimes set it up to filter them out"

Violet sparklepops!

Riverdale says, "Although perhaps human readable format should gag arrive and depart messages."

Kaikoura has left.

Starlenia meant for the web logger though. Radio spam. >.>;

Zoe_Lang knows it's necessary, but man I hate captchas. :p

Violet says, "You could definitely arrive in rooms a certain way without an alert, I remember.."

Riverdale says, "If the exit into the room or the room itself is dark, there are no messages."

Otter says, "RIght."

Otter says, "And dark exits drive people crazy."

Riverdale enters the bar, looking around, trying to adjust to the sudden dimness of the room.

Riverdale has arrived.

Riverdale waves.

You say, "Zoe, we've tried to make them as un-painfull as is feasable anyhow."

Starlenia asks, "Is that a real guest? o.o"

Ajax is Ajax the cat, sat on by a fat wabbit, "This brings back memories!"

Hawkthorn steals Otter's socks.

Zoe_Lang nods. I just always manage to screw them up somehow. Haha. XD

Otter is amazed at the theft of the non-existant.

Ajax bites Hawkthorn.

Hawkthorn is awesome that way.

Ferret laughs.

Starlenia steals Otter.

Riverdale blinks.

Ferro offers glasses of Screech to everybody

Riverdale inquires, "Where's Otter?"

Otter is NOT waldo.

Starlenia sells Otter to the Communists.

Otter bites his tongue.

Hawkthorn puts a striped hat on Waldo.

You say, "Ooh. The Comunists are doomed."

Demmer wants popcorn for that show.

Otter says, "As they ought to be."

Hawkthorn says, "Otter is now officially Waldo."

Ajax exclaims, "They'll run in fear!"

Ferret grins at Otter. "HOlding back are we?"

Riverdale inquires, "Didn't Waldo wear socks?"

Starlenia peers.

Ajax gets out from under Hawkthorn and lets her fall.

You say, "And I mean, more doomed than usual ;)"

Hawkthorn is robbed of her squishy feline cushion.

Ferro is not doomed... and refuses to purchase said Otter...

Starlenia exclaims, "Ferro is a Red!"

Violet says, "Really glad to see the web client."

Ferro has read the Manifesto!

Violet asks, "Otter - can you tell how many people will be using it to log in?"

Ajax sits on Starlenia.

Otter asks, "Using what?"

Violet says, "Logging in from the website"

Riverdale drops an acorn on Ajax's face.

Otter asks, "Oh, the web-client?"

Violet says, "Rather than a client/telnet."

Violet says, "Yes."

Savannah shall return

Savannah has disconnected.

Starlenia is invisibible. Can't be found.

Otter says, "I could probably track it somehow."

Ajax eats the acorn.

Ajax sits on Riverdale.

Ferro east Ajax. "Circle of life, y'know."

Otter says, "Let me put it a different way: we control the source-code of the web client, so I can absolutely track it."

Violet says, "I was just wondering - seeing if it'd pull in any people that are unwieldy with telnet or unknowledgeable about clients.. "

Ajax is ate by a mouse!

Violet says, "I remember I joined RW a year after the fact, simply because I was too young to understand what I was seeing with telnet.."

Otter says, "Violet, I'm pretty sure it will."

Violet says, "And the 'local echo' thing."

Otter says, "Telnet is a "barrier to entry." The web client is not meant to be a full-time client, but to get people _past_ the barrier to entry."

Ferro corrects, "Dormouse."

You say, "I remember sticking with telnet for way too long. c.c"

Violet says, "Exactly .."

Starlenia hugs Heartwood.

Ajax is ate by a dormouse.

Violet says, "I don't know for how many people Redwall will be their "first mucK" - but it was for me, which is why I had no idea about telnet/clients."

Heartwood is huged...about as much as anyone can hug a noncorporeal ghost.

Violet says, "Luckily, the staffers were very patient about my backspaces.."

Otter says, "Vista doesn't install telnet by default."

Otter says, "So, modern players CAN'T use telnet."

Aleltai says, "Oh, the accursed telnet.."

Violet says, "Oh that's .. hilarious."

Zoe_Lang stares. Are you. kidding me.

You say, "And when I came back on here last week I was using Putty which is just as bad."

Aleltai says, "Besides it being pretty crappy. Not on Vista!"

Otter says, "You can 'request' it via the control panel somehow."

Ferret says, "I love Vista. We've made more removing it and setting up Xp than on laptop repairs now."

Violet says, "Heartwood - L.O.L XD"

Group hug of the badger fails, and everyone smacks into each other. o.o

Otter says, "I bet, Ferret."

Otter says, "I have Vista on one laptop. I hated it enough to carry only a Nokia n810 to a class."

Ferret nods.

You say, "I'm still the only one Otter knows who uses and likes Vista."

Otter says, "Yes, the only one."

Ferret gasps and moves away.

Otter says, "Vista is hated by _pirates_. They steal Xp instead of Vista."

Hawkthorn says, "Vista can chew nails. I have more people calling me with trouble with Vista than anything."

Ferret says, "Only one for me as well."

Otter hehs.

Violet is a mac user..

Ferro wields Mac menacingly!

Otter says, "Good thing I put the web-site on [1] isntead of on a Windows box."

You say, "Don't get Otter started on Macs..."

Hawkthorn hugs her Mac and her XP machine.

Savannah has left.

Aleltai says, "Fortunately I have XP..."

Otter says, "Or Apple in general. No."

Violet says, "Hey, I just want things to look pretty. I'm superficial. "

Violet goes to watch Top Model, brbz.

Riverdale sits in his artificial tree, munching on an acorn, and watches the proceedings, wide-eyed.

Gamut glances at his tricked-out Commodore 128

Riverdale mumbles something about XML.

Demmer needs the upgrade to the 128

Hawkthorn shakes Riverdale's tree.

Riverdale falls out of the tree and breaks all of his bones.

Violet says, "Arguably, I don't like Atlantis for the mac .. but I'm not sure what's better."

Starlenia climbs Riverdale's tree instead.

Aleltai says, "I seriously hope that was a joke about computers..."

Starlenia offers Riverdale tea?

Aleltai says, "The mention of ancient hardware that is."

Hawkthorn oopsies. She broke Riv.

Ferro rather likes atlantis...

Ajax sits on Hawkthorn.

Violet says, "This is a dangerous room .."

Otter says, "It's full of VICEs. ;)"

Darklett hmmms.

Ferro prepares the powderkeg with an evil giggle.

Ferret says, "It has cookies, so it's Ferret approved."

Gamut wields his deadly SX-64

Zoe_Lang exclaims, "So! So far as transferring content from the previous site - just go pig wild? XD"

Darklett says, "I still think the naming of "Book page" is kind of misleading."

You say, "Trees to fall out of, pools to fall in, nukes in the basement..."

You exclaim, "Zoe, yep!"

Otter says, "Zoe, absolutely."

Otter asks, "Who told you about the nukes?"

Huh? If you need help, type '+globals for a list of all MUCK commands'

Violet asks, "Otter - is the rating of the MU on the website?"

Zoe_Lang exclaims, "K! Because Vaticus' Building Tutorial has gotten me through many brain farts over the years. XD It must live on!"

Ferro must flee!

You say, "Oops, that wasn't supposed to be an outside voice..."

Ferro has disconnected.

Otter says, "The mission statement is, and a bunch of other docs."

Otter says, "The "And finally..." bit ont he main page says we're friendly. It doesn't say "Rated G.""

Turmal enters the bar, looking around, trying to adjust to the sudden dimness of the room.

Turmal has arrived.

Ajax waves to Turmal!

Riverdale waves.

Otter says, "Anyone who posts non-G will be removed."

In a room page-pose, Turmal waves to all!! What a gathering!

Ajax whaps Riverdale for stealing his waves!

Violet says, "Well, just trying to deter people looking for adult behavior ..?"

Otter says, "Zoe, put it into the help."

Otter says, "I moved a few to learn how. It's not hard."

Violet says, "Friendly can also imply 'open' .."

Starlenia waves. ^^

Darklett exclaims, "Later!"

Otter says, "Violet, our content isn't adult."

Ferret has disconnected.

Ferret has connected.

Violet asks, "I know that, but I'm just being a parent checking out the website, the first thing I'd be looking for is 'Safe for my kid?' so I'm trying to see how long it takes me to find the mission statement."

Otter says, "I'm not as worried about someone "doing harm" as I am about making it great for the right people."

Otter says, "We'll always have trouble-makers. We'll handle them."

Ferret has disconnected.

Otter says, "It's buried."

You say, "Otter, somewhat on the subject, may want to make a forum sticky in Chatterbox about rules as they apply to the website."

Otter says, "The rules on the site are hte MU's rules."

Otter updates the main page.

Violet says, "It's pretty buried."

Demmer says, "You might also put such text in the sidebars."

Ferret has connected.

Aleltai says, "Gotta go, good night everybody. :)"

Riverdale says, "Good night."

Turmal exclaims, "Goodnight!""

Ferret says, "There, the new Muck addies are setup"

You say, "Mission statement could be linked to in the sidebar, sure..."

Violet says, "Seeya, Aleltai."

Aleltai has disconnected.

Riverdale was revived by the tea, incidentally. All his bones were healed.

Otter says, "Nah; mission statement is not best on the sidebar. "

Otter says, "Re-read the main page. You'll see the adition."

You ask, "Footer?"

Ferro has left.

Violet exclaims, "That's great!"

Otter says, "The last thing we want to do is put "Porn is not welcome". There was a game that had problems with rape. So RAPE was mentioned on almost every rule and page as being forbidden."

Ferret says, "Some unusual column alignments"

Starlenia waves to Aleltai - but too late. x.x;

Otter says, "Just saying, "Non-explicit play is forbidden" once gets hte point across better."

Violet says, "Ergh, no triggers. "Kid friendLY' is enough"

Starlenia asks, "/Non/-explicit play is forbidden? >.>;"

Violet says, "Maybe kid-friendly-violence.."

Hawkthorn boggles.

Otter says, "Er, yeah, "Explicit play is forbidden.""

Violet irony! XD

Starlenia says, "Violence and comic mischief. n.n"

Turmal wonders what this site is? A Redwall MUCK forum?

Otter says, "Always try to make rules as principles. That way you don't have the problems with "sea lawyers.""

Starlenia says, "'rwmuck.limitless.org/rwmuck'"

Heartwood bites back a joke about other games.

Turmal thanks Starlenia. :)

Otter exclaims, "People who say, "THere is no rule against !" can be responded with, "It breachest he principle _here_.""

Violet says, "The cardinal rule of obscene "Know it when I see it.""

Violet says, "Case by case."

Ferret says, "Heh....'friendly version' is below 'child page' with the work 'printer' up and to the right of 'child page' "

Otter says, "And here, the "primary directive" is WP #1."

Ferret says, "Work-word"

Violet says, "So Otter knows it when he sees it."

Player Title S Species Stat Idle Location

---

RiverBot ScriptBot M Eel PRV 4m

Adyna F Stoat OOC 12m Adyna's Hideout

Violet Lush. F Mouse OOC 1s Big Bang Bar and Grille

Hallow CWSkipper F Otter OOC 32s Big Bang Bar and Grille

Zoe_Lang LPColonel F Hare OOC 56s Big Bang Bar and Grille

Starlenia Novice F Squirrel OOC 1m Big Bang Bar and Grille

Hawkthorn Old Grump F Rabbit OOC 1m Big Bang Bar and Grille

Otter Monk M Otter OOC 28s Big Bang Bar and Grille

Ferret M Ferret OOC 21s Big Bang Bar and Grille

Ajax +Staff M Cat OOC 3m Big Bang Bar and Grille

Gero Novice M Mouse OOC 50s Big Bang Bar and Grille

Turmal Fyrpels M Mouse OOC 1m Big Bang Bar and Grille

Darklett LPMajor! M Hare OOC 6m Big Bang Bar and Grille

Heartwood Ghost F Badger OOC 1s Big Bang Bar and Grille

Demmer Carpenter M Sea otter OOC 4m Big Bang Bar and Grille

Riverdale M Squirrel OOC 3m Big Bang Bar and Grille

Gamut M Frog OOC 47s Big Bang Bar and Grille

Tayna F Ferret DYN 35s Den

Scorch M Ferret DYN 1m Den

Caelanna happeh. F Fox DYN 57s Goshu Entry Room

Rys M Stoat OOC 8m OOC Entrance

Beatrix Lady F Bat IDL 2m RW Abbey: Beatrix's Quarters

Teela Lady F Mouse IC 40s RW Abbey: Bunk Room

Flicktail Shield Ot M Fox DYN 4m RW Abbey: Great Hall

---

07:21:04 PM - 11/12/08--

Gamut says, "A ESRP rating would cost $800 or so; I doubt that's worth it"

Otter says, "BJ has a problem, though: he's got R rated violence and G rated situations outside them."

Aleltai has left.

Otter hehs. "We're NOT a game. If we were a game, BJ would forbid us."

Starlenia says, "Um, 'specially in 'Eulalia'.. x.x"

You say, "I've usualy argued that the books are really closer to PG. c.c"

Violet says, "Yeah, I'd say a sea of rats being boiled alive.."

Violet will never forget that part of the book.

Otter says, "Also, we'd have the same caveat as any of the XBox Live stuff: online content is NOT under our control."

Ferret asks, "Should I remove the otter carcass from my ship's bowsript then?"

You say, "Then again, I stopped reading at Lord Brocktree"

Violet says, "Huh, the rats are tunneling ..."

Violet says, " ..W-wait .. what are the woodlanders doing?"

Otter says, "No, Ferret, that's in line with the books ;)"

Ferret snickers. "Good, it keeps the gulls at bay.

Turmal wonders if any graphic design changes are being put on the table, and would be glad to help with that, once it is.

Otter waves to Heartwood, "Talk to her about graphic design."

You say, "I would thing the gulls would see that as food, Ferret"

Violet asks, "WHO CAME UP WITH BOILING OIL? In the middle of singing songs about pies, did someone go - Just in case some fella from the bad side shows up, the same oil used for fried spinach can boil our baddies alive?"

Ferret says, "Exactly, keeps 'em of of the deck."

Otter says, "You wouldn't beleive the awful graphic that I did you were all spared thanks to my partner."

Violet wished she could've read the discussion behind that..

Turmal nods, waves to Heartwood. :)

Ferret has this urge to see it now.

Zoe_Lang really ought to've bothered to learn html before now...

Turmal thanks Otter's partner. XD

Otter says, "Zoe, you don't need HTML."

You say, "Turmal, basicly Otter is paying me for my time. I can do graphic stuff but it's not a very high priority...now if you want to submit stuff we can look at getting it integrated."

Otter says, "Just past in normal text, and it's mostly fine."

Violet asks, "Did you make any rotating graphics, Otter?"

Zoe_Lang says, "Just want to like center text and little things like that. XD"

Otter asks, "Rotating? You've got to be kidding. That's visual stuff."

Turmal ehs, rotating graphics are borderline outdated... :/

Violet is being silly, Turmal.

Hawkthorn nudges Zoe toward a CSS tutorial.

You say, "The site as it is now is just a reskin of one of the main Drupal themes."

Otter says, "Yes, see nmc.limitless.org for the spinning stuff."

Violet is referring to the Nameless logo.

Turmal ooohs...

Ferret has done electric ferrets with lightning all over them.

Otter says, "Or the spinny stuff on Serenity."

Darklett wants a rotating, burning IMPACT!!! font R spinning on either side of the logo. And make it word-art 3d green.

Violet says, "Darklett, you were just waiting for this conversation to drop that."

Starlenia says, "No, Demmer, it should flash between green and red as fast as it can."

Darklett nodnods. :D

Otter blinks.

Gamut seems to remember making the NMC logo in postscript...

Otter says, "On my machine, "as fast as it can" would make people vomit."

Violet says, "I'm just glad we haven't gotten stuck on ANSI .."

Demmer didn't say anything.

Otter smiles.

Otter says, "Actually, the new version of NMC makes Ansi easier to do."

Violet says, "W-wait .. we.. we're not getting it, are we?"

Starlenia exclaims, "Darklett I mean! Sorry. x.x;;;"

Hawkthorn cackles.

Hawkthorn exclaims, "The colors!"

Otter says, "But, no, I'd rather not have it around. Some people have done it on their own. Generally, I think it detracts in almost all cases."

Turmal says, "We want to hypnotize our players onto the site. XD"

Ferret shakes his head. "ASCI a silly question Otter, get a silly ANSI."

Darklett goes back to writing his help page. c.c

Starlenia raises a paw.

Otter says, "Actually, that's a lie. It detracts in ALL ases."

Ferret runs and hides.

Violet says, "It looks like a Mary Kay makeup case .."

Hawkthorn ew.

Starlenia says, "Um, room names in a lighter gray would be nice.."

Gamut says, "If it's used consistently by the system, it can be a visual aid. But allowing people to randomly insert colors (and ANSI key remapping trojans) with plain text everywhere is not a good plan."

Otter says, "If a guest hits the web client, they'll see ansi _symbols_. So anyone doing ansi will basically have the effect lost on every guest."

You say, "There's basicly two layers to the page layout - changing graphics and appearance in the existing layout for example is pretty easy. Changing the layout itself requires both CSS and PHP code."

Zoe_Lang asks, "Heartwood - can a centering tooly thing be put into the toolbar?"

Ferret says, "My client ignores the codes since I have a custom setup on it."

Violet says, "That requires everyone have a same visual dream of the layout .."

You say, "Except for the things that you can add with Drupal's tools"

Violet says, "And Redwall seems to let everyone do their own thing on their own place."

Otter has his client strip most of the ansi, but not all of it.

Gamut says, "We _could_ make an ANSI interpreter in the web client..."

You say, "Zoe, it's doable. I need to talk with Otter about that because it requires php, but it's easy to add buttons."

Ferret says, "I use colors to denote players names and numbers, for fast eye track identification."

Otter hehs. "Yes, we could do a lot of things."

Gamut says, "Let me rephrase that: "_Somebody else_ could make an ANSI interpreter in the web client...""

Otter says, "Oh right ... people who use clients with color settings are HOSED if ansi is used on them."

Hawkthorn toddles off! Take care, all.

Hawkthorn has disconnected.

Otter says, "I'd not even thought about that other reason to loathe Ansi."

Ajax likes to choose his own colors. ^.^

Ajax says, "Hmm"

Turmal could work on an elegant, impressive main heading? Help spur some new design ideas with it?

Otter says, "Turmal, by all means, make things ... post the images into the Forum so people can see."

Heartwood points at what Otter said and nods.

Turmal exclaims, "Sure thing!"

Otter says, "Heartwood: can you toss "Hosted by www.nearlyfreespeech.net" into the footer as well?"

You say, "Can do."

Otter says, "Thanks."

Otter says, "That's a great host."

Violet says, "Maybe I'm anti color or something - I dunno, I've never used it/liked it or even bothered joining a game that wouldn't let you turn it off."

Ferret uses custom color sets on every character even, the BG and text are different for each. Makes it simple to know what window I'm working in.

Otter says, "Vie, most MU clients can be told to strip it out."

Violet says, "Man.. maybe I'm a fossil or something .."

Otter would die if he was subjected to that much color, Ferret.

Ferret grins. "It's a ferret thing, as Vaticus once told me."

Otter says, "Ah, I should drop a note to Vati to see the new site."

Ajax does the same as Ferret!

Otter does that.

Ajax likes color!

Ferret says, "But, makes it fast to see pages for help too.,"

Violet likes color .. around her .. not on the stuff she reads.

You say, "So you really are that Ferret, Ferret. ;)"

Violet says, "Too much strain on my eyes."

Ajax colors in Violet's client.

Riverdale meeps.

>> The game will paws in two minutes to save changed objects. <<

Ferret says, "Yes...I am "Ferret" most anyplace I work. :P"

Violet says, "That sounds like terrorism .."

Hawkthorn has left.

Rys enters the bar, looking around, trying to adjust to the sudden dimness of the room.

Rys has arrived.

Ajax exclaims, "Wasn't me!"

Ferret says, "Except on one or two older systems, where it was taken, so I use Furet."

Starlenia waves. ^^;

Ferret says, "Such as on my art site."

Ajax puts a sign on Riverdale which reads, "I did it!"

Violet sees two different shades of colors drastically, eyes don't match in colors XD

You say, "I'm mostly refering to the fact that you're old enough for me to remember you. ;)"

Violet says, "So when people ask me to check for particular colors that are close, I'm pretty helpless.. "

You say, "I stopped playing on Redwall sometime in 2003."

Ajax nods.

Violet says, "Man .. you know who was a prolific builder? "

Starlenia has disconnected.

Violet says, "Crimson."

Riverdale screams, "SAVE!!!"

>> Pawsing to save changed objects. <<

>> Save Complete. Next save will be in an hour or so. <<

Turmal chuckles.

Starlenia has connected.

Riverdale says, "Oh, yeah, Ajax and I rediscovered Mordor a couple months ago."

Violet asks, "REALLY?"

Ajax exclaims, "Mine! My precious!"

Ferret says, "I could not use Ferret at first, as species names were restricted. Thankfully not to long after the PBR that was lifted."

Violet says, "Wait.. not Mordor .. or was that the name of his Castle?"

Riverdale says, "It's a huge tower."

Violet says, "Yes."

Violet says, "Highly highly described."

Violet says, "Crimson turned it over to me, and then I was like 'ahmigod' and kept it for a few years, and tranferred it on."

Violet says, "Sometimes I'd just roam around it, just stunned XD"

Gamut exclaims, "One does not simply transfer in to Mordor!"

Ferret laughs

Ajax exclaims, "Its only 218 rooms! "

Violet exclaims, "It wasn't as much as the rooms - but the intense describing!"

Violet says, "Even the closests .."

Ajax nods.

Starlenia has never seen. u.u

Violet says, "Closets .. and mac spelling stuff clearly doesn't stop me from making errors."

Violet says, "Starlenia, it's like stumbling, literally, across Mordor."

Violet says, "Just take the Eagle."

Ajax says, "^.^"

Ferret says, "reminds me of the old times....when my Klingon ship flew silently with the magic wishbone player killer script bombs."

Otter asks, "Where are you taking the F-15 to?"

Violet still has some pretty silly species zombies

Violet says, "From before the species lock on zombies."

Starlenia has no idea what anyone is talking about. Um. u.u;;

Otter says, "I should undo those locks and setup locks to keep them out of the IC area only..."

Ferret grins to Starlenia.

Violet says, "That's right, my dangerous character - SheWolf, the WOLFHUMAN could be roaming right now."

You exclaim, "Dundundun!"

Demmer used to be a Wolf. Long before he read the books.

Starlenia asks, "Um, is that all 'bout the website?"

Violet says, "My zombies exist to remind me of the ridiculousness of myself."

Ajax whoos.

Ferret says, "I also recall stealing Violet's things from her cottage down the road for quite a time."

Violet SIGH.

Otter says, "I think so."

Starlenia goes home.

Starlenia has left.

Violet says, "I didn't know how to LOCK."

Ferret says, "I know....I had quite a treasure cave going"

You say, "If there's any more questions about the website feel free to post them on the forums."

Otter nods.

Violet says, "I wondered why I kept having to remake Long Swords, Ferret."

Ferret snickers. "Dukar kept stealing them...and giving them to Drako.

Violet rage XD

Ajax laughs.

Violet exclaims, "I'd also drop like, notes, and be like amigod why are they gone!"

Ferret says, "Dukar also had the theft scripts for currency."

Ferret asks, "Wake up broke? Look for Dukar."

Violet says, "Insidious."

Ferret says, "yeah, I could clean you out in seconds."

Violet says, "Hey. I've spent a long time building up these pennies- I mean, OOC building credits - and I'm going to use them, one day. Somehow."

Violet says, "Maybe to make a lot of long swords, just in case you strike again."

Ajax wonders how many Violet owns. o.o

Jessy enters the bar, looking around, trying to adjust to the sudden dimness of the room.

Jessy has arrived.

Darklett huhs. "Why do the weights start at -15?

Darklett asks, "Why not just 0?"

Riverdale waves.

Ajax exclaims, "Jessy!"

Ferret says, "unless Otter repaired the offset refund setting, you can make 1,000's in minutes."

Jessy says, "Good lordy that's a lot of people."

Ajax exclaims, "You missed it! "

Otter says, "Darklett, you can bet someone wanted to NOT re-number zeros."

You say, "Darklett they actualy start at -50 c.c"

Ajax exclaims, "It was epic!"

Violet owns a lot of pointless stuff, definitely.

Jessy asks, "What was epic?"

Ajax exclaims, "What you missed!"

Riverdale says, "We laughed, we cried."

Riverdale says, "We stole Otter's socks."

Otter says, "We kissed $5 goodbye."

Darklett says, "I don't understand. Re-number zeros?"

Ferret says, "They were stale"

Jessy says, "This conversation is going nowhere fast."

You page, "I'll stay around until I get bored." to Otter.

Darklett says, "Oh."

Violet says, "The socks are a lie."

Darklett says, "In case they want to make whatever the first page."

Jessy says, "Everything's a lie, Vie."

Otter says, "Yeah, I can bet someone had a bunch of stuff with weight zero. Then they need to get something _first_. So they said, "Heck, we'll add negative numbers.""

Jessy says, "Notice how I rhymed that."

Otter says, "It's teh weight on putting pages into the book that Darklett is talking about."

Ajax claps.

Darklett says, "Yeah. I'll just write in my thing that it might avoid frustration in the long run if you weight pages as you're creating them."

Darklett says, "Starting with zero."

Otter says, "It probably won't. The weighting thing is so you can make changes."

Darklett says, "Say you make twenty zero-weighted pages."

Otter says, "Leaving zero as 'default' though is sure easy enough."

You say, "If stuff is all the same weight, it sorts alphabeticly."

Darklett says, "I know. But what if you have a list of twenty items, but you want the fourteenth and fifteenth reversed out of alphabetical order for some reason."

Otter says, "I wonder that they didn't just use a floating-point value. Then there would be nearly continuous weights.."

Otter says, "Darklett: you would be in trouble ;)"

Darklett says, "You'd have to weight ALL of the pages just to make sure they were in that order. :P"

Otter says, "Right."

Otter says, "But, you wouldn't necessarily know that when creating the pages."

Otter says, "Or, you'd hit that problem on adding the 21st page and not liking where it goes."

Gamut says, "or have "move up" and "move down" functions instead"

Darklett says, "Exactly. So you might as well weight them up front."

You say, "I'm not sure if the outline view for books has this, but other weighted things on the admin end can be draged and dropped into order."

Otter says, "But you don't know what to weight them to, becuase the future could add a new page to break it."

Darklett says, "Er. Good point. Why not decimals?"

Otter says, "That's what I said: floating point would have made it near continuous."

Darklett says, "Yeah."

Otter says, "Keep it simple and don't worry about possiblity problems until they become real ones."

Ajax sits on Jessy.

Otter says, "Than do what all programmers do."

Jessy is not a chair.

Otter says, "Curse until you're blue in teh face ;)"

Violet says, "Make a mountain dew run."

You say, "Otter doesn't drink soda..."

Ajax exclaims, "Oh, sorry about that!"

Ajax sits on Riverdale.

Ferret perks up. "I heard Dew mentioned

You say, "Cursing is well covered though."

Otter says, "Oh, what _I_ tend to do is find an alternate server or package."

Otter says, "Just look at how Zope, which didn't do what we needed, was replaced with Drupal."

Darklett asks, "Wait, so the framework doesn't even support floating-point?"

Darklett says, "That's a bummer."

Otter says, "I suspect it's an integral data-type, since they use a discrete list."

Darklett says, "So weight is something on their end, not something custom."

Otter says, "The provide the weighting system."

Otter says, "We didn't build it."

Otter says, "Drupal itself is full of stuff."

You say, "And stuff that can be added onto that stuff."

Demmer chuckles, "For some definition of stuff."

Demmer winks.

Otter says, "Especially when stuff is spherical and of uniform density."

Ferret says, "Just remember, the fancier the plumbing, the easier the drain clogs."

Violet feels like she does when she sits on a refueling outage meeting ..

Otter says, "Yeah, I hand the Zope for that bit."

Jessy says, "At least I'm not the only one who.. understands nothing. XD"

Otter says, "Zope was a full-featured app server with CMS wrapped in...all python, everything 100% customizable. Get a wrong Python version, pickles didn't work, death, no recovery. Upgrade the OS. Death. No recovery."

Zoe_Lang thirds!

Ajax understands all, and patpats Jessy.

Violet wants pickles, fantastic.

Otter says, "Hopefully, Drupal will stay ... upgradable."

Jessy says, "All in favor of slowing backing away .. come... RP me with me over there!"

Zoe_Lang wants eggs. Cooks eggs. Mmm, eggs.

Jessy points! >_>

Zoe_Lang grins.

Otter says, "Anyway, any more comments on web suggestions, to the forums."

Otter says, "The live forums."

You say, "And I've done a sucessfull point upgrade on the site I'm using to test stuff. It's a pain in the neck but stuff didn't break."

Ajax says, "Over There, Over There, Send the word, send the word, Over There"

Violet asks, "ARe the threads lockable by admin?"

Otter asks, "Lockable? You mean closable?"

You say, "there isn't a "lock" feature."

Violet says, "Yes."

Violet says, "This thread is over. -- Kinda stuff."

You say, "I can look into it but don't know."

Violet asks, "Just wondering - is often referred too as freezing? .."

Violet says, "But we really don't have that many problems with flame wars.."

Jessy says, "So Zoe. What's going on, Zoe."

Violet eyes Otter. "For some reason."

You say, "I hear "close" or "lock" most."

Otter smiles.

Jessy gets concerned when Otter smiles.

Rys chirps.

Otter says, "I rarely worry about problem players. They can happen, but they find themselves removed."

Ajax exclaims, "To the dark forest they go!"

Otter says, "And the instant we link the web-site into the MU, blocking them here blocks them there."

Violet says, "Or banned forever."

Violet has left.

Otter says, "Ban is forever. I've got a real problem with this whole 'forgivenes' thing."

Violet enters the bar, looking around, trying to adjust to the sudden dimness of the room.

Violet has arrived.

Violet undies.

Otter says, "But, we've not banned anyone in ... years."

And not much more was said about the website after this point.

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• Webmaster's Test Cave